The RP of Forest Warden

[the_muffin_man]

I recented asked Mileena to give me some of her input as to how the Forest Warden clan should be run. The following message is her work. Thanks Mileena

ok, here goes with the list

1) Would be kewl to have a clan area of some kind. I'd say the best location would be around the farm close to the primitive village in braem. Not sure about what it'd be like, a small, camouflaged-type village of some kind, or a cluster of huts high up in the trees? I can come up with some room and mob names/descs if you like =)

2) I was thinking about clan type equipment/equipment worn by forest wardens in general. They'd normally go for fairly well camouflaged equipment, so I was thinking about a couple of shopkeepers in the village who could sell camouflaged equipment, e.g..
A camouflaged, leaf-green cloak which would be essentially the same bonuses/weight as a shimmering cloak of black silk.
Dark, bear-fur boots which would be the same as gold-worked boots
and so on.
Speaking from a biased point of view, I'd like bonuses to stay the same, but if you'd rather we forsook a few points in the name of RP, i'm not fussed
I think camouflaged equipment should be an enforced thing for forest wardens, so maybe they could have some way to paint their armour for the ones that wear abs? Or possibly some issuable abs that's fairly dark and foresty =)

3) I thought of a couple of limits on weapon choice too. You generally wouldn't see a forest warden running around with a pair of whopping great axes, since axe = chop down trees = naughty naughty in their book. So maybe have a list of weapons that they're allowed to use up on a board that they can read on joining, and then they can make the prac adjustments and get new weapons if necessary.

4) As to the direction and general RP of the clan -

a) Forest wardens should have a love of all forest life, and so should avoid attacking any creature unless of course it attacks them first.

b) They'll generally try to avoid cities if they can help it, so as is the current ***mud fashion to sit around in the centre squares of big cities =P, they should incur penalties if they spend too much time sitting on their asses in cities doing nothing. A deduction in cp or something.

c) They should try to learn the various herbal recipes to make organic medicines/potions, and use that knowledge to help others.

d) Forest wardens would usually act as guides, helping people through especially tricky regions, so all members of the clan should make it their business to gain an in depth knowledge of all forest/wood regions on the mud, and help people who get lost in those regions, or those who need to find something specific in one of those regions, if they're not already occupied with another task.

e) As far as things like quests are concerned, although i'm not sure what potions there are or if they're coded yet , quests such as finding the ingredients for such and such a potion, and then bringing the forest warden mob the finished potion would be fun and rpish. Or possibly bringing the mob the pelts of certain animals so he/she can make a new vest etc for him/herself. This would mean all wardens would be required to know survival to a high level, which in my opinion is a skill all forest wardens SHOULD know =)

f) Track should also be a requirement skill imho, since a forest warden would be taught to look for the tracks of different animals as one of his principle skills.

g) Although the race isn't implemented yet, since the Ogier are also lovers of life, warden members should try to learn about the ogier, and should have an understanding of the formalities that the Ogier use. This would be something that could be put on hold until the Ogier are implemented as a race, or possibly incorporated as part of the test for future applicants to the clan?

h) There will be hardcore pkers who join the clan, it's inevitable =/, so I think some strict guidelines on how forest wardens should deal with people caught chopping down trees, like the ancient ones in the thorny forest, should be laid down - They should ask the people to stop killing the trees, but under no circumstances should they attack them. If the people persist, the member should take the case to the local justice and deal with it that way.

i) Still on the idea of pk, the forest wardens would, from an rp point of view, try to remain friendly with all justice clans of the wetlands, so the only pk that should ever happen would be with raiding trollocs/seanchan/aiel (if at some point relations between wetlanders and aiel break down only). The wardens shouldn't go out of their way to fight shadowspawn or seanchan but, should the need arise, they would be allowed to assist others if those people were facing possible defeat.


that's about all I can think of at the moment. I'd be happy to come up with names/descriptions for any mobs/equipment/rooms to do with the clan if need be =)

[the_muffin_man]

Here's my view on it, coupled with some ideas etc. Please feel free to criticise ideas, write up some input as to how the clan should be done, what aspect should be changed etc. They will probably decide how the clan is to be set up in the future.

My take on the forester thing is that they are not only woodsmen per se, but guardians of nature. They desire a balance between life and death, between modernisation and rural roots.  I see their base not as a treetop city, but an underground network of large, spacious caverns, much like roots, with perhaps a feel watch points at the higher up (like the tree system). Their architecture would be like a merging of plantlife and man-made structures, and that it what powers their underground 'base'- a primodial force that seems evident in all major fantasy book series. Anyone who knows Audiun will know what I am talking about. The base is the central platform of their operations, and I see it as a living entity, and they must tend it (to get cps etc). Their base will deteriorate without constant caring of it. ie. Parasite-killing of the walls, dissecration of the root system, over-growing of the shoots, all that kinda naturish stuff to get some iniate cps for new clan members. In another words, the new members are much like novices in the Tower, in that they should take great care in cleaning their base. I also think we should expand on this cleaning/caring thing in that we should have tree objects loaded around the forest areas, where they must visit to tend the trees. Something like :

   'a shivering sapling struggling for sunlight is here.'
     -> enter forest warden
     -> warden types in 'tend' tree or some such, with a potion in his/her hand
    tree gets better.
     -> repeat several times = gain 1 cp.


Could also expand on the animals, but I don't want to go there just yet...

Now, about the RP of the Forest Warden. Okay, how about this:

Instead of having a (seemingly) unfruitful existence (no offense meant- I just mean that they are not goal oriented- they tend trees, that is a goal, but it may not be enough for some players), we could have them search for bringing about the reanimation of a Nym, the epitome of what they are. The Mother of all Tree-hug--errr Naturists.
I am not saying this is their 'quest' exactly. What I mean is that they have some base from where they can direct their RP future. They seek the ..I dunno.. ( I don't think they'd know what a Nym is called).. the Lord of the Tree or some such...I dunno. I am pretty sure some person will think up of a better name. I understand that the Eye of the World has a Nym, but how about making it so the 'brothers/sisters that have sought and found the Eye have not returned' kinda thing. So instead of 'I resign from the clan' in posts, or 'I have died' type of RP, we could have it so the Forest Warden has decided to take the Journey to seek the Eye etc etc. I know I am blabbing, so bear with me Also, since we're not strictly stuck with the book, we can deviate a little and say that they may be more than 1 Nym. Perhaps they have transformed into seeds, awaiting the passing of the Breaking, but have laid dormant because those who were suppose to care for them died? I dunno... ideas..ideas..

I am not too worried about equipment and clan requirements right now. I think it will be easily solved, given the time to experiment with what fits best with the clan's RP. What I am after are replies regarding how the clan is brought into existence. The above was just a path, one of many, which can be taken, to make the clan a stable one RPishly. The Forest Wardens do not have a history in the WoT books, and people tend to wander abit if they are misguided. This is the opportunity for you story junkies to have a stab at it. To make something from the WoT world, combined with your imagination, real in the MUD.

Oh, another thing. I am really distaught at how some people can justify killing a person for his/her eq (okay, by person I mean a PC-though some may see killing a NPC as an offense as bad as killing a PC) with basic RP. I don't want people demanding clan eq ( other than those of military clans and those linked to the Tower- clans that needs to uphold its image) back and ripping someone for it. This goes against everything many clans, esp the Forest Wardens (In my view), stand for. They are NOT trying to uphold some glorious image - they are protectors of the forest. So, what I really do not want to see are posts in the future, where people justify killing of a person. Can you guys come up with a way to get around protecting the clan's eq, without restorting to ripping someone? *grin- I want some input!* Reporting to the 'proper' authorities is all well and good, but it will start a witching wave if some imm, or some clan master, goofs up and acts (to the players) biasly. Get those squeaky gears upstairs rollin'.



-J.A.X - Story Weaver and General Loon.

[Fahad the aiel]

best way to get clan eq without killing

*smack smack*
*subdue*
*take what you want*
*handcuff etc etc etc so he learns the lesson*
*wave eq stealer*

[Mileena]

Nice thinking Jax  ;D
As an addition, I was thinking about the time before the release of the D.O in the books, and how humans would sing with the ogier and the nym to aid growth of new forests/crops etc. This could be a basis for RP in the forest warden clan. They're like the 'third party' who stayed behind, and over the years, they became known as the protectors of the forests (other two parties being aiel and tinkers of course )

I was thinking of a long term quest, where a mob, some wise old man, comes to the forest warden town, and speaks of some ancient parchments spread over the world, that tell of where the wardens came from, and what they once stood for. This could lead on to your quest to bring back the nym, and then even further (possibly more in depth when the ogier are integrated as a race), allowing the forest wardens to work with the ogier in trying to bring the ancient songs back to the world.

You could branch off onto other quests to, for example, try to find seedlings of some of the Great trees, and figure out a way to make them grow again, or to find a way to 'cure' a small part of the blight.

I LOVE the idea of having to maintain the clan area, and having to go out and maintain trees/plants around the world. That should really get people stuck into the more rpish side of things, and get them to learn the different potions/treatments that should be part of what the wardens know.

On the clan eq thing, only thing I could really think of would be to add a tag to the eq, that only allows members of the clan to wear it.
e.g
You get a breasplate of darkened green scales from the corpse of Mileena.
wear breastplate.
You feel a strong force urging you not to wear this piece of equipment!

This could possibly be the result of a quest to procure the herbs for the clan master to make you a potion that can be used to treat all your clan (and only clan) eq, to effectively "ward" it. Of course, there's the problem of one person doing the quest, then the rest just either borrowing the potion from that person, or picking it up after that person rents. I'd say the best way to remedy this would be to have the clan mob mix the ingredients, and then "paint" all of the clan equipment that you're wearing himself.

Anyways, i'm getting close to running on empty for tonight, so I'll have another think tomorrow  

[Dantec]

Ok, jaxon suggested I give some input into this discussion as I have been a clan master in the forresters on ***mud for over a year, and a member for twice that.

Basically Forresters on ***mud is one of the origional MUD clans, it is very very old. Its basic job at the start was a newbie haven, where anybody could get in really, and did what they wanted, there wasent really any set RP.
When I got I worked on changeing that, and created a history for ourselfs, and wrote up what we belived in, and sort of hammered out an image. However its rather shakey.

With a new fresh beginning on Mirrors, a forest guardian sort of clan can really break new ground RP wise and head in great directions, instead of the same old, people running around in green clothes yelling stuff about oaks.

Here is what I would like to see in mirrors with this clan.

A druidic approach!!!
I want to see a clan that is about nature, about intergrateing with it, respecting it, learning from it, becomeing one with it.
And I mean more then just saying that and running around like normal killing everything.

I want to see these people really respected, like there is something mystical about them.
Here is what I think are some good ideas.

1. A different way of experience.
We want forest wardens to avoid running around killing things for sport. It should be rarely, IE, for food only.
They should be able to get XP in another way.
One way could be reading, like the ogier plan, but I cant see the forest guardians as being literature types, they are more into the wisdom of life then of words.
I think they should rely on xp from fighting rather nastier things, _and_ oneness.

2. Oneness??
Its my idea of how these people really exist, what they are about. Like the one power to channelers, etc.

By sitting down and meditateing, they can slip into a state of direct communion with the earths spirit. Their breathing slows, as does there heartbeat. The need for food and drink is virtually gone.

Once in this state they can stay and gradually gain xp, and increasing their oneness skill, or they can send their spirit questing.

This is basically their spirit leaving its body, and being able to float out into the forest. The more skill they have in oneness, the longer they can stay out, but even skilled spirit questers shouldent be able to be out of their bodies for more then half an hour real life, or they start to die.

Once out there, they are basically invisible and invincible. Of course they cant talk, or take or drop something, they are mearly observing. They can go into the mind of a forest creature.
Like an immortal takes over a mob.
Except this depends on skill.
An unskilled quester cant control very large animals, it is mearly along for the ride instead, seeing what the animal sees.
The better you are, the larger the animals are that you can control, like bears and lions.

This spirit questing idea is similar to the beliefs of many old american indian cultures, and I think is very cool on the nature angle.

Now, I think along with this spirit questing, the forest wardens should also be able to...

3. Mind Grasp
That is, when walking about normally, have the ability to look at an animals mind, and see what has passed by it in the last 20 mins RL or so. Excluding other animals of course.
So using this skill a forest warden can learn who has been by, like certain criminals, or trollocs, etc.

4. Shelter.
Have certain rooms scattered all over the world instead of one main base. The people in the clan can see when they are in the right room, because of an extra message in the desc.
In that room they can use the shelter command, and basically climb up the tree.
Up there is a safe place for rent, or oneness without being ripped, a water source, food growing, and the clan message board. Keeping it very small and simple, and having half a dozen over the world, is more in tune with how they would be I think. We could also not let the shelter command be used when no quit is on, to avoid PK problems.

5. Have bonuses to camouflage, ranger sneak like skills etc, and move bonuses in forests.

6. Set snares. IE, like traps, but they dont do damage, but instead hold somebody in that room for 5 mins or so, depending on different factors. When triggered it gives a zone wide alert so a waiting forest guardian can come inspect it.

7. Commune with the trees.
In forest zones it would be cool to have some exits that can be changed. IE, opened/closed, like a door. But with no name, and no way of opening it, except by communeing with the trees, ie, a command used in that room. Of course it should only be possible when there are other ways around, but it would be cool if forest guardians can change the way their forests are shapes to some degree.

-Dantec

[the_muffin_man]

Just a side thing guys. Please, I know some, or many, have qualms about ***mud's management, but bear in mind that we are trying to avoid direct competition if possible. Heck, what I would like is something of kinship between one MUD and the other. Afterall, many of us came from ***mud, and despite being angry/frustrated about the management, it does us and ***mud no good if we berate them. On the contrary, I feel a great sense of debt to them, and appreciation for the time the imms and players put into the MUD. So please, while posting, avoid calling ***mud anything BUT that. No 'evilMUD' etc please. If you do think that we must be compared to one another, then, alright, but do it in a fashion that is as unbiased towards the two MUDs if possible. Please understand that Mirrors and ***mud are NOT fuedal enemies, as some have gotten into their heads. We just have different opinions on how things should be run, that is all. Thanks for your understanding.

Loril, man, you got to get rid of this nasty phraser. I had to edit my post so it didn't say EvilMUD instead of '***mud'. Get rid of it please.

Now back to this Forest Warden Thing.

Yes, I too would like to see such a complex system, but what you are suggesting Dantec, will take alot of work and alot of tweaking, specifically for one clan. As I said, I am more interested in the RP of the clan than what benefits come from the clan. Eq and features aside please. Just think on how the clan be set up with as little work for the coders as possible. I do like the way you presented the clan's skill though, and if possible, I would very much like to see such a thing happen. I like the mind-linking with animals and trees thing especially. It just may be too hard to code/not worth the coding time which can be spent for the benefit of the whole MUD instead of a specific clan.

About the clan base. Again, we must think of practicality and balance. Most clans have one area where forces are concentrated. If we scatter a treetop city here and a small tree hut there, throughout forest zones, and despite the RP reality of it, we will get whines about it from people who must travel half way around the world to fetch a mob to lead or to travel several hundred rooms to get to safety. Clan bases must be of one area to make the MUD's clans balanced. Else we would have everyone flocking to the clan with the most bonuses. *cough*Warders*cough* I know that right now there are many bandit bases around, but there will be measures to make sure bandit members cannot spam to the nearest clan base and find safety.

In response to your idea Mileena. Yes, that could start the clan. I like the old man parchment thing. Could be a global quest to get the clan started, with the clan base hidden from people. At the end of the quest, we'll find a bunch of 'wildpeople' who turn out to be the Forest Wardens. Just a thought. Would like to hear more.

Cheers,
-J.A.X

[Fahad the aiel]

just an itsy bitsy bonus, dantec mentioned something similar if i am not mistaken, anyway, here goes

forest wardens can climb trees, in any forest zone, they can climb a tree, they cant be reached by normal weapons, you need bows/crossbows/projectiles to hit him, and maybe some people with insane str can bash the tree and make him fall?

[Erica]

I think the notion of being able to leave your body and be invisible and invincible is just asking for abuse.

I'd rather see clans concentrate on RP than bonuses like this.

[Mileena]

2)   On the climbing trees to limit who can hit you thing, i'd say we need to keep _all_ bonuses for this clan away from relation to direct combat.
However, wouldn't it be cool if the forest wardens could climb trees to scout?  ;D In certain rooms, like the ones with the tree in that can be cured, the wardens can climb a tree, and if they've practiced a watch/scout skill, they can watch the surrounding area, of a radius of say two to three rooms, and will see any movement of mobs/pcs that occurs.
I'm not sure about it from a coding point of view, but if it was limited to seeing only human, horse, animal, trolloc etc, and only if they're not sneaking. So instead of seeing a grizzly bear leave from the northwest heading north, you'd see an animal leaving etc.
I'd say any aggro mobs/pcs entering the room could still hit you though, so people don't abuse it and use it as a safe haven if they're badly wounded and being chased.

2)   About the one big clan base vs. lots of small "safe rooms" spread over the world. I think that would be detrimental to the sense of clan kinship that the forest wardens would have. A main homebase that all the forest wardens go to would promote clan unity, and get the members to work together in a solid community.  

[Fahad the aiel]

it should be a save heaven for wounded/chased people

if someone chases you with a big sword, and you know how to climb the nearby tree, wont you just do it? to be safe?

[Mileena]

It might be an rpish thing, but even though this is a mainly RP mud, there will still be a small pk aspect to it, ie. when the dark side comes into play, and possibly the seanchan side. The thing is, realistically, a guy/girl wearing a full set of heavy armour isn't going to even think of climbing a tree, so since we're looking at it from that point of view, that gives those def people out there a distinct advantage over armour users. They just scramble up the tree and heal/wait for backup. I know you mentioned bows etc, but honestly, taking into consideration the skill decay system, I can't see that many people wanting to have to keep a projectile/archery skill up all the time, just on the off chance that they try to kill a forest warden who might run up a tree.....
You could debate this sort of thing for hours and hours with no real conclusions, that's why I'd prefer it if any clan bonuses for the clans least likely to be involved in pk should be kept strictly away from relation to direct combat.

I'm not a pker myself, that's why I came to this mud and left ***mud  ;D. But I do admit that there will be some pk aspect, and this needs to be taken into consideration, especially when coming up with any "bonuses" a clan may have.

[Fahad the aiel]

ok, you win *scream*

[Mileena]

Muahahahaha!  ;D

Anyways......I've come up with a list of abs equipment that I think would be suitable for the wardens. Dodge will come later. Lemme know what you think  

a breastplate of dark, green scales
a pair of mottled greaves
a pair of mottled vambraces
a pair of green and brown scalemail sleeves
a dark, serpentine helm
a pair of darkened steel gauntlets
a pair of fur-covered steel boots
an ivy-carved black gorget
an ebony sungwood wristguard
a camouflaged cloak of forest green
a belt with a sungwood buckle

if there's anything i've missed, beat me over the head with it so i remember to add it and if you say dodge, i'll............*insert extremely nasty and horrifying act here*  ;D

[Zaknafein]

I’m not going to address bonuses, clan eq, quests, & the Forest Warden base for now simply because none of these things really matter at this point (and everyone seems to have a lot of ideas already :-P). We have no history, and without a history can we even truly exist? I cannot say, but what I do know is that we desperately need a past so I offer you my idea…<br>
We all remember when the Ogier were first building the great cities and planting groves within them to stave off the Longing. Now perhaps before the Ogier were ready to return to their steddings they chose people that they knew well and trusted and charged them with the task of tending and guarding the groves (with the exception of the grove in Tar Valon which is tended by the Aes Sedai). Maybe they even gave them a title like Protectors of the Groves or Grove Wardens or maybe they were called Forest Wardens from the very beginning, or perhaps they were given no name at all.

So the Ogier finish building and return to their steddings and the years continue to slowly slip by. Eventually (different lengths of time for different cities) the city-folk decide that the land the grove is on could be put to better use if it were a grazing pasture or the city simply expands to the point that there is no longer room for the grove. Now we have axe-wielding soldiers coming into the groves wanting to chop down the trees. So our primal Forest Wardens do what they swore to do and protect the trees from the soldiers. But these people were not chosen for their battle prowess, they were chosen because they would take the best care of the trees, because they were the most in tune with nature and could be trusted to love the trees as much as the Ogier who planted them.

Now our Forest Wardens are no longer tending the trees, they are protecting them with their lives and dying willingly in hopes of saving the groves. Though they put up a brave fight, the gentle Forest Wardens are no match for the trained soldiers and they are quickly overwhelmed. Those that escape the groves with their lives take refuge in the forests about the world and continue to do what they do best; tend the trees.

Perhaps those that fled from the soldiers and their duty believe that they must make amends for failing to shield the groves from destruction. That they can in some small way lessen their disgrace, for falling short where the Ogier had trusted them to succeed, through eternal service to and protection of the forest.

I think this could be the beginning for some excellent role playing, goals for the clan, and quests. But then …what do I know? I’m just a wandering Forest Warden with no past…<br>
Zak

[Dakon Navarra]

OK, Simply speaking from an RP standpoint, I don’t think Forrester need to be locked into the tree-hugging militant environmentalist vegetarian stereotype. Why not say that Foresters simply prefer the "great outdoors" over cities and towns? They live off the land, chopping down trees for fire and shelter, and possibly planting new ones to replenish what they take. Eating the meat of the animals, and clothing themselves with their fur and hide. They patrol the forests and plains, keeping them safe for traveler from bandits and such.



I'm not saying that their is not a place for foresters with the kind of RP everyone is talking about, but I think it should be a personal RP choice, not a clan mandate.