About the clans..

[Mursia]

I would like to say that Clans are ment for ROLEPLAYING not to gain forms or something like that, atleast other than Warder Students. My point is that most people in clans don't RP at all, and this I find very disturbing as I meet them and they don't follow the path they have chosen, you are not forced to join a clan in anyway, don't join a clan before you are sure that is what you want to do. (clans should be more restricted to their RP than they currently are (some people in clans don't RP, at all)).

[yurai]

I find that I have to agree with what Mursia sees, I notice that some people (I won't mention names), worry more about their ability to whoop ass than they are with rping decently/logically. I find that just plain ole wrong.

And being the extremist that I am when it comes to rp , I believe that imms should seriously toughen things up and make them MUCH MUCH MUCH(I can not stress this enough) more rp dependant.

[belgar]

Can you think of any ways in which we would be able to cause the players to RP more?

I've personally tried to encourage via the reward route only to find it doesn't work terribly well. Do you guys have any ideas?

[yurai]

Well, the fame clan system should only work for country clans, since influence shouldn't do you much help in military clans, but it should and it does in country clans. And if it can't be done, then strike the entire system, it usually creates a few more problems than it solves.

Make the position of 'RP Enforcer' an official rank for RP imms.

I'll think of more.

[Tular]

Hot pokers, 1000 papers cuts, water torture...
Those would be my preferences, but it seems players may be a little squeemish in giving out their home address.

In simple terms, you can't force a player to rp. If you try, they'll usually take option B: quit.

You thus need to coerce them into doing it instead, and the easiest way to do that is require it as a means to attaining something they want (or think they want).

This in turn can pose other problems, as some desires are much harder to meet than others, in which case, you need to make easier solutions desirable in themselves. Since generally Power, Influence, Respect, Remembrance, and the ability to escape one's normal real life routine are prime drivers, one needs to look at how rp will achieve those better than simple game mechanics.

An old joke comes to mind, where an explorer is travelling through forgotten jungle, and finds a stocky tribesman standing over a dead dinosaur. The explorer asks "how did you kill the dinosaur"? The reply comes back, "with my club". The explorer goes on to say "wow! how big a club did you use to do it?" at which point the tribesman responds, "oh, there are about a hundred of us.."

Through game mechanics, a player can get the best equipment, the best skills, and become the ultimate killing machine.
Through rp, a player can rally an army, storm fortresses, and have others to brag to and compare exploits with when they stop in at the tavern after.

I've made heaps of quests in my time on the mud, and numerous more 'gadgets/rituals', and I've come to one conclusion. An imm creates a quest, with a heap of work, and its only really good for one run. A player, on the other hand, can come up with an objective they wish to reach, and find a dozen different ways to get there each time.

Reading back, this doesn't really solve anything, but rather puts a bit more of the problem on the table to look at. You can be sure I'm trying to find solutions myself, so I'll get back to this in time

*tosses in his silver throne's worth*
Tular

[yurai]

Well I've seen on a few other games that equipment/skills and whatnot was restricted to lvl. So why not restrict stuff to rp, as in there'd be a system more realistic than the current fame system and also that doesn't encourage competition in the sense that the only reason you're doing that is for the reward.

At this stage, that won't work, but perhaps you guys can find a way to make it work.

[Tular]

I think that kind of rp enforcement, rather than encouragement, would result in certain forms of roleplay being discriminated against. Take our current fame votes for example. Those players that are rather extraverted while playing, who look to associate with the biggest groups possible, gain the biggest advantage from the resulting notice and votes. On the other hand, a rather intraverted player may only really associate with one or two others, yet play their introverted character's part to far greater perfection than the extravert ever did.

Result: Mediocre extravert gets huge rp points, and exceptional introvert is lucky to get any.

What needs to be remembered in making a system like the one Yurai suggests is that sometimes it is someone's inaction as much as their actions that defines them, allowing them to slip beneath general notice. The player of a spy or military scout (or assassin) certainly wouldn't want to be recognisably famous if they were out to play their character well. Their deeds may be famous, but they themselves may not be recognised at all. "No, that can't be him, Tharus the Blade has eyes that can kill a man cold. Besides, he's 8ft tall and can hide under a pebble! That battered old man couldn't hurt a fly!!"

Back to rp as a means to spiffy equipment. Short version, its like that already. Any player that is senior enough to be eligible for custom equipment will have to roleplay the entire process of obtaining it. A noble procuring a personal banner will need to organise the materials, find a weaver/tailor, negotiate a price, and make sure any additional artisan (crest designer) has been suitably reimbursed.

As far as Mursia's initial post, I agree. Most people in clans don't RP. To me, this seems at the moment to stem around the expectation of all rp related tasks to come from the clan master. This quickly results in clan masters becoming drained, and depressed when there is nothing being generated for them in return. Face it, how many rank 7+ clan quests are running at the moment?

My opinion is that everyone in the clan needs to shoulder more responsibility for those under them. If you have sufficient rank to award a cp to a fellow clan member, then you should be active in finding clan related tasks for that clan member to do. Sergeants should be looking after Corporals, and Corporals after guardsmen etc. The national clans are a little different in that they have class barriers to deal with, but in general, chain of command in a clan should be adhered to. Tasks/Objectives should be passed down from the top, and problems/enquiries forwarded up from the bottom to whatever level is required to deal with them.

Once these basic steps are in play, RP should come easier, since everyone knows their relative responsibilites and authority. The next is for suggestions of 'potential problems' that can be addressed as a clan, for example, bandits harrassing merchant trade along the Tar Valon road. A detachment of guardsmen is detailed to deal with it, and only through working together as a clan are they able to return to peace at the end of the day. Alternatively, alligations of corruption may come out of the docks, with higher ranks needing to find out who is taking bribes (or earn the bribes they themself receive)

As a final thought, I think for clan RP we need to have a look at what the clan's primary goals are, and then look at what groups are attempting to prevent them from achieving them. Just a pinch of contention always goes a long way

[Sylibus]

When I first came here I was set on doing nothing but having fun. Got to level 51. Did some bad things and then found my way wanting to do more for Caemlyn on my wetlander char and attempting to join the Queen's Guard. Before that I learned that if you wanted bladeforms you had to join a Military type clan. So that had some influence on my characters path in the game. But anyways, I've had people speak to me about joining the Queen's Guard and had some ask me what kind of forms we have to offer. That's totally forgetting the purpose of the clan entirely .

At first I was reluctant to RP because I couldn't get past the thirteenth page on The Eye of the World without falling asleep. And that really kept where I could actually go capped or limited to a degree. Eventually I began to RP mainly trying to make the new recruits polish my boots or something or some such .

My computer *coughPackardBellPOScough* died pretty much the beginning of my summer so I regret not being there for my clan and helping the recruits and such move along. Sooner or later people in clans will realize that getting the cps for the next rank is just a miniscule step in the ranking and/or reward process. Patience is brutal but it's required if you intend to play such a game dealing mainly with RP and doesn't have that many high ranking individuals to move you along or available clan immortals. It should be a rule of thumb to not criticize someone about their poor or lack of RP. Don't think that that automatically makes you better than them in any case. Note that not everyone is in IC mode. We're people who want to have fun too not be a stuck up noble and like go to balls and such all the time. If I was held accountable for half the things I say or the way I act I'd probably be locked up in Badikar's Maze or however you spell it for eternity ;D. Doubt this solves anything but yah .